An email conversation transpiring from comments below between Perk & Eddie
Posted by Eddie on 08/29/2009 16:23:35
WOW!
Perk
I sure miss the inner action with you and Coach/John as well. I miss
others that used to come here to. I tried to develop a ‘work’
relationship with another class participant for a good period of time
by email after it all went completely dead here in class. But time
demanding circumstances in their life didn’t seem to permit that from
coming about back then. And likely at least in part due to my own
personality as well I would guess.
I was glad to see Scot and JTY finally having a bit of inner action
here, after all this time.
As you know I had really given it much effort here for quite some time
even before Coach took off, and then for some time after his
departure. But those efforts were by no means even close to sufficient
to rally the troops, as it was stated. In fact it seemed to really
ruffle at least one very strong voice here. And I am being way overly
generous by choosing the word ruffle.
Honestly Perk I pretty much felt like I was left hanging out to dry.
Metaphorically speaking, kind-a like what the Indians used to do to
their enemies. Bloody and beaten, but since it was only metaphorical,
I just left for it was painfully obvious that any usefulness that I
may have ever had was attacked and shredded asunder with a vengeance,
even by another using your own words as a whip back then. And no one
including your self seemed to really care.
I am in no way even close to a masochist, so I left. So to say I was
surprised to see your “endearing exclamation” to me here some fourteen
months later, was true, because it was truly a shock to me. Now I
completely realize you are a very busy professional, but a biweekly or
even a once a month committed participation doesn’t seem outrageously
demanding. But by my layman’s estimation to someone that this little
experiment is so important to, as I had believed it to be to you,
doesn’t seem all that far fetched.
Now I fully understand that this was “all”
Coach’s/John’s “baby/experiment” that he devoted unbelievable amounts
of time to service “Classroom Talk”, and that you even have some
standing challenges with parts of his take on some thing’s. But I know
you were, and still are completely honest and real in your endearment
and friendship with/to John.
I suppose I’m just too idealistic (Judge) for most when it comes to
what I believe “true friendship” entails. So maybe the idea of an
ongoing commitment to a deceased friend’s work/dream of this magnitude
is actually way beyond the pail, even if they did not have such
challenging demands on their time. And Perk I’m not being at all
sarcastic here. Because when I am truly honest with myself I tend to
feel that this “Class” could never really work with out John, and I
was probably actually only fooling my self to ever think that it
really could.
And so in the end run, maybe my so (self) called last ditch efforts
and your willingness to leave the web page up coupled with your
efforts to stand beside me, actually trying to led me through the last
days was kind-a like what doctors sometimes do by leaving loved ones
on life-support past any chances of them actually ever being
resuscitated.
As for me, at TTFMT, I only really ever had but few, maybe only one,
real friend, by what I consider a real friend to be. But I tend toward
a more present constitution myself, where ‘true’ friends are
concerned. That which constitutes ‘true’ friendship to me, includes
time spent with each other, linked by elements of self-sacrifice. Or
maybe most importantly, with a true friend I just really ‘want’ to
hang out with them, and Coach was a dear friend and I still miss him a
lot. And his memory and to a lesser degree his “Work” is still very
much alive in me. My presence here with you proves this beyond
question, as it does with you as well. And I suppose other things than
death can interrupt these type unions but they can as well still be
considered ‘past’ friendships. But there seems to be an inexplicable
requirement of a true heart desire to simply (as John would
say), “just hang out together.
But on the other hand, or from another perspective, I truly believe
that if anytime I was to reach out to you for some type of real help
that you would be here for me, and likely very promptly as well, to be
of service in anyway that you humanly could, as I would for you. Now
what is that but some level of friendship, even if it’s only present
out of humanness or by acquaintance, through common mutual past
relations?
Sincerely,
Eddie
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Re: WOW!
Eddie:
GREAT to hear from you! Rallying the troops demanded John's 25
year study, then 20 hrs a week for 6 1/2 years... He ruffled aplenty
(as you know) and the demands of that site were many and uncompensated
(as you know).
I think you are right regarding my limited caring: I always left
that world to John and the classmates, with limited caring to go
around to my 30+ actual clients, the Mrs., the horses and dogs, and
now the chickens... I wasn't big enough for that additional task, and
perhaps John was the only one of us big enough.
I have too dropped from most of the online world that makes real
human exchanges so difficult. It's great to Twitter for an immediate
protest invitation in Bagdad, but it's a lousy medium for emotionally-
charged exchanges. I still point people to it, to include a recent PhD
candidate who is canvassing the exchanges for data on his thesis on
mindfulness and interpersonal personality efforts.
I regret that you got bloodied in your facilitator effort, and
that I am a bystander to that... Lots of research demonstrates how
anonymous online no-last-names FLAMING comes from "dis-inhibited"
authors who are writing in a way they would never speak in another
person's presence. I do support your 'letting it be,' as I am, and
like many fantastic teachings, that one dims daily by the absence of
its founder and anyone to take his place.
One of my clients using the Kindergarten part of the site
encouraged me to write it all up in a book. If I had no life and
unlimited resources, I might just do that.
I concur with you about "real" i.e. actual not virtual, friends.
The site was never about the site: it was about Eddie in Eddie's
actual world, John the Younger in his world, etc. That's where the
juice really is. And indeed, I am grateful to hear from you in any
form, will anticipate hearing again, on down the road. Don't be a
stranger!
I miss John a lot too.
One final question: when John and I would 'review the tapes' over
time, it seemed that we could see development in the participants,
especially you. Your writing and spelling, your application of the
materials, your responses to others. What is your sense of the impact
of the materials on you? I'd really like to hear your side of it....
Thanks again Eddie, for everything! You really did make the site
of great value to me and to John, and many, many others!
Perk
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Thank you Perk for your “real” and available personal connection.
Perk
What a joy it is to hear from you so promptly.
I do truly believe that you, John, and I really did get very “far”
beyond the cyber-ness of our space together with each other. And that
is no small feat, where I am truly convinced well beyond my thinking
mind, that heart to heart movement is that which reflects “between us”
even through cyberspace. And yes I do feel like we did that, even
through this medium. And in spit of this so flawed medium we have at
times truly reached across this vast breach to “meet” something
very “real” in each other. And this is especially true when you
consider that this is where “I” met you two and that we have never
actually even seen each other face to face.
As you are familiar from your reading as well as participating with
much of my written sharing of my personal studies and practices, weak
as they may have so much of the times been, and most assuredly are
these days out here in this walking around life of mine, that I have
found little (and currently none) personal contact with others that
have/do this type practice, that we call Mindfulness.
So my primary interest and first focus along these lines was through
my dear friend Gil’s reading recommendations, that I have mentioned
before in class. They were at first some of the Fourth Way materials,
most of Almaas (A-Hameed Ali) and then shortly later and through the
next few years most all of Nicoll, and most all of Shah. But even with
that still not much real one on one practice so to speak, until I met
Coach. I was mainly just reading a lot back then and trying to “be”
about what I was reading as best as I could. And now, more than I like
to admit have only become books on a dusty shelf, inside and out.
Then I found John’s site, and it was one on one personal contact, that
fell right in line with what I had been reading and studying for
probably three or more years or so at the time, if I remember my dates
right. Only a residue of all this seems to remain with my being
these’s days.
Sorry I needed to say all that to say this; “What is my sense of the
impact of the materials on me?” Well, way beyond the material
curriculum, was the curriculum to be had for me, became a living man.
The transparency of the man John Bilby coupled with his shared living
essences is what stands out to me, which honestly was the curriculum I
studied mostly. And this has been true for me with you as well.
But yes I did the exercises in the Kindergarten, actually those simple
exercises gave me an experience of being much more “consciously” aware
of my self and my surroundings, and most importantly, of “me” in my
surroundings, than I had been in a long time, maybe ever. Actually I
have become so dull in this respect, and I’m pretty sure it would do
me tremendous good to go through them from where I am today. I am not
doing very well at all in regards to any of this these days. I could
go into where I have gotten myself down to, not good; but that would
take more time, energy and space than either of us have, or are
willing to take. So let me get back to your question. The actual
written curriculum was great to, and I read most of it numbers of
times my first couple of years in class, and without it and my initial
experiences with what I said above, I wouldn’t have had a clue. But I
was much more alive and awake those days than I have fallen into
today.
If I had came to TTFMT without the above mentioned knowledge and
experience it would likely have meant something much different to me
than it did I’m sure. And without a very close working practice and
knowledge of John’s written material being available there, nothing
would probably have ever happened for me in that case. One key element
that comes to mind right here is that it helped me to relate directly
with John in his own language, and at the same time often simplified
things and put them quickly into a working “walking around in the real
world” vernacular.
But with myself not being so scholastically inclined to say the least,
I don’t think I can give you a very well informed assessment of that
written material aside from a very close connection and interaction
with the man at the same time. Even today if I read them, I tend to
feel and see the man more prevalently than the written concepts.
Granted they are basically action oriented directions to be taken, as
opposed to literary words to be read and pondered. So I guess what I’m
saying is I had an overall profound experience with it all, but I
don’t have the perspective to make the call on there potential effect
aside from a personal contact with the man who bore them.
Thank you so much Perk for your heart felt commendation in regards to
the value that I personally added to the experiment. This truly means
a lot to me, especially coming from you, and it even sounded like you
may have meant I actually might have had some moments of “good”
practice, and influence along with my abundance of “wrong” work
examples, for of this I am sure I have been a marvelous “example”.
{Widely grinning}
What it had mostly provided in regards to my writing and overall
communication skills was the “awakened” human support which seemed to
draw out the courage, willingness and desire to make the “extra”
effort. And let me not fail to remember to mention a pretty high
quality and collaborative platform on which to present. Now how much
that had to do with the actual practice of mindfulness and or the
curriculum I could not honestly say for certain. But my guess would be
that they all had a part to play. And it has also, coupled with all
the above, enhanced and contributed to a more mature and aware
connectivity with those about me. This was especially true, and much
better back then when I was actually trying to practice it, than now,
as it stands out to me here trying to express these things to you here
today.
And where it comes to the actual mechanic’s of my writing, some
prevalent aspects to consider “still today”, would be
an “extraordinary” amount of time it takes me compared to most other
people, and the constant companion of a thesaurus, a good dictionary,
and spell check, and oh did I mention an “extraordinary” amount of
time it takes me compared to most. {Smiles}
I truly hope this has not been overwrought with more words than were
actually required, or wanted, but the opportunity you have so
graciously provided me to make, (what I had wrongly considered a long
lost possibility) an honest to goodness caring connection with you
Perk has truly nourished a particular famished part of my soul.
Wow I just had a very palpable sensation of joy rising up in me almost
like liquid rippling from right below my chest cavity, up through me,
to the top of my head. “Wow! I hadn’t felt that so noticeably, exactly
that way in some time.
Eddie
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Re: Thank you Perk for your ‘real’ and available personal connection.
So Eddie,
You do bring tears of joy to my eyes too! I offer again my (and by
proxy John's) gratitude for your courageous and effortful bearing
witness to our tiny little feeble but sustained efforts -- dating back
now about 40 years, I'd guess... I would ask you to post your
responses on the site, 'if you would,' including my emails to you. I'd
like somebody to find these rocks with carvings in them 500 years from
now and have to decode what we were up to, and what it meant to us.
I'm telling you I see a difference in you from all your efforts:
we were both drawn to Nicolle, Shah, Ali (go figure: I don't know what
that means).
I thank you for making the effort to write this up. I also find
good writing laborious. I have only two favorite books on how to
write: Bird by Bird/Lamott and On Writing Well/Zinsser. For me it's
always long hours of churning and editing and thrashing about. And
then seeing what I wrote years later and sighing bleakly at the sight
of it...
And this is my experience too: if I don't keep up various forms of
practice, I fall back asleep. I practice badly and forget often. And
then remember again.
I have a friend (leader of a Gurdjieff group in town) who is
studying with a solid Tibetan monk. Monk says, 'same consciousness, on
the pillow and off.' My friend: 'but I'm not that conscious off the
pillow, what to do?' the monk tells him to begin practicing in two
hour segments.... Four times a day. My friend looks at me and we both
shrug: we've got lives and kids and jobs and people and fish to be
caught, and some further mischief to get into. We're not monks and
don't wanna be.
“The transparency of the man John Bilby coupled with his shared living
essences is what stands out to me, which honestly was the curriculum I
studied mostly.”
Hey, I get that. Nicely said.
“What it had mostly provided in regards to my writing and overall
communication skills was the ‘awakened’ human support which seemed to
draw out the courage, willingness and desire to make the ‘extra’
effort.”
I get that too. It makes me want to urge you to find a spiritual
friend or two, in the flesh. Way before the site, John and I were
debating and urging and practicing together. Your testimony here
reminds me here that it really does make a difference.
Where the heck are you in the world? Aren't there some range-free
Buddhists hanging around? Couldn't you get to some Diamond approach
week long seminar in Colorado or such? I really urge you to do so
Eddie. I think you'd get a lot out of it (although these escapades are
hard work, I admit, and cost money).
You need all three: the Buddha, the dharma, and the sangha... The
awakened state; one's righteous duty or any virtuous path; and the
community of monks. You and the folks had a bit of a sangha here for a
while. They are all over the world, if you have 'eyes that see'...
Onward, through the fog!
Perk