Classroom Talk
Fifth and Sixth Grades Archive
How about a new department here for class writings?
Posted by John on 06/08/2003 14:26:48
But first, an idea that's just come to me:
I have a hunch we forum members here have gotten into a neat position now
with the things on the board where some *very interesting and valuable*
Knowledge might be coming into light.
When I contemplate the gestalt of our flowing discussions at this point,
the question seems naturally to arise: When is it contrition, and when
is it guilt?
Do you see how these can be juxtaposed? And any of us might be confused
about this at certain times.
Let's say as a premise that, in general terms, contrition is when a
person knows that they are really feeling sorry for what they have done.
(It's an experienceable feeling, an inward experience of the sense of
touch.) And guilt is when a person thinks they owe a debt of obligation
for the bad that they have done. (It's an intellectual construct that
arises out of feeling guilty about it.)
Yeah, I think that works, as a working definition.
So, when is it contrition, and when is it guilt?
That time Rob told us about when he gave that phony apology (as he
recognized) to those people he had bumped into, was it real contrition
then? I think it was guilt. "I *owe* an apology pro forma because of
this." "I *should* make a gesture of apology." Was it really coming
from Rob's heart that he was honestly and genuinely feeling contrite
about bumping into those folks in those here-and-now moments? By the
grace of authenticity, Rob is able to share with us what he saw to be the
truth in that episode.
[And a very interesting little thing I'll point out here parenthetically,
is that when we make the pro forma guilty gesture of, for instance, a
hollow apology, what happens is that we take this as "having paid our
price." We've paid what we've *owed*, so its "even again now." Do you
see what I mean here? Even with a hollow, unfeeling apology, we take it
as if we have made up for what happened and can act as if it's "all
okay," so to speak. It's as if having paid the expected social price of
apologizing excuses us. That is, we think and act as if it's now been
made okay, by having made such a guilty gesture. . . . . . So . . . . .
. I wonder if any of you in this class can make this interesting
connection: Guilt is an excuse to do it again!]
We'll come back to that again some day, but for now . . . how can we tell
the difference between contrition and guilt? How can we know in a given
situation whether we are being contrite or being guilty? When is what's
happening a true expression of the deeper natural and innate loving
essential humanness that we were born with? And when is what's happening
an expression of our acquired neurotic Self-ish conditioning on the top?
Hmmmm. It's subtle. Are you willing to contemplate this?
"Am I saying and doing this now because I really feel sorry for what I've
done? . . . Or, am I saying and doing this because of guilt?"
Sometimes one may see a flopping back and forth in a person between both
real contrition and acquired guilt over a period of time . . . really
contrite for awhile, and then really stuck in guilt for awhile. That's
what I imagined I might have been seeing with Sally in the past, during
this year of challenge.
Already I can coach you all this much: When you find it's contrition,
you will know it's authentic contrition. You will just *know* it. And
when you realize that it's guilt, be authentic about that, as well.
.......................................................
Just for the sake of some technical reflections: in the real world,
after all, don't *both* the Israelis and the Palestinians have things to
be contrite about in their war with each other? Stop and reflect on that
. . . all the deaths and maimings on the other side that have added up
and added up through all the aggressive actions that they each have taken
against the other. Setting all their other differences aside, if they
could each only recognize the contrition for this that is there in each
of them, fully, and *know* this, and live awarely with this contrition in
them, wouldn't this be *a real start* in the right direction for finding
peace? In order to get out of their seemingly eternal back-and-forth
cycle of hurting each other over and over again, it would seem helpful
for them to pause, and somehow clear their minds for a little while, and
see if they could get in touch with any human contrition that they may be
able to feel within them for the other sides' babies that are being
blinded, crippled, and killed.
When a Palestinian can tell a Jew, "I'm sorry that I did that to you,"
and the Jew can tell the Palestinian, "Yeah, I'm really sorry that I did
that to you, too." . . . . . . that, it seems to me, would be when real
peace talks might begin. And perhaps the seeds of that are present in
all of us humans, in spite of our differences, if we will only pause, and
look and see. How about that, you Palestinians and Jews???
And . . . . . feeling guilty about it wouldn't be enough. That would
just provide each of them with more excuses to keep on doing it again.
And I don't doubt there are plenty of them on boths sides that are
feeling guilty about it all—as they *do* keep on doing it again. No, it
would have to be real contrition to turn the tide here, really felt in
some honest moments of awareness, to do the trick.
..........................................................
Let's see. Without referring back to my print-outs of posts, which I
don't have down here with me now (heh-heh, because I'm really not down
here to work right now), I remember a few things from last week. I was
going to continue with responses to a posting of Pauline's. My "nose for
the news" tells me our conversation there is leading in the direction of
some deeper focus on down the road in some classes on love and romantic
love, so to speak, and the sometimes so highly contentious and painful
relations between men and women when they live together and marry.
Intimate relations is one of the truly major areas of life that we
haven't given its due so far in Classroom Talk.
But today is too soon for that for me. My son, Huna, is subbing for me
today out at the ranch, after a week straight of my working out there
subbing for others. Every day over 100. (Sally's feeling that, too,
these awesome summer days, in the same weather system from Death Valley
over to Las Vegas and down here to Tucson) I need the rest, and I'm
taking it easy today. Just wished to drop in here briefly and touch
bases with you all. I'm supposed to have all of this week off until
Saturday. After that I'm gonna have to work sixteen days straight, and
Huna's probably not going to be available to help out.
.......................................................
The clarity in those back and forth exchanges in class last week is
superb. Really every one of you that I can remember in this class, going
back to Suz with her natural, earthy, aware observations of Northwoods
living, her horses, the bears!—and Douglas with his true intellectual
genius in discussions in and out of the realm of mindfulness training—
every one of you along the way has seemed to me to show the natural
talents of writers who deserve to be read by a larger audience of your
fellow humans for the contributions that you can make to the wholeness of
our humanity. I remember I once said a long time ago that I wasn't sure
if this class wasn't as much a course for writers as a course in
mindfulness training. And so it seems to me to have turned out to be.
Rob, of course you can post rough drafts of your new book here, for the
rest of us to read and possibly give you feedback on. That's a *
wonderful* idea.
There's one very general theory in the realm of "working with people"
(and you hear this expressed in psychotherapy) that the best single
indicator of the mental health of an invidividual is his or her ability
to draw upon the available resources that lie around them in their
community in the healthy development of their life. This is a commonly
applied measure of "successful completion of treatment" in psychotherapy,
and, sometimes, heh-heh, it's used as an argument to persuade people that
it's a good idea to get into psychotherapy, just for the resource of
learning about life that you will get out of it.)
Here . . . . . this class is just a wonderful resource that lies
conveniently at hand for you and your writing colleague to avail
yourselves of in your project, Rob. Good for you in picking up on this!
Indeed, we are a ready-made focus group to experience the very subjects
you are writing about. Heh-heh, we are the only collected "test
audience" in the world that is familiar with the awareness game ideas and
the wheelbook, some of which you have said you are drawing from in your
collaboration with your co-author in writing this book about movie-
making.
I'm with you all the way on this, Brother. What a cause to champion!!!!!
Bringing light to the basic craft of an industry which does so much
around the world to inform the modern public about life. Whooopie!!!!!!
Getting to collaborate with you collaborators on this project is *high
living* for me, bruddah! I'm in javelina heaven.
Here's what I'd like to do. I'd like to ask Brent to add another button
at the top of Classroom Talk that links to a room called "Class
Writings." Let's make this a new department here in our school. And I'd
like for each of you students here to be able to have a "thread" or a
"desk," or whatever it takes, in that room, where, at any time that you
would like, you can post any writings that you are doing that you would
like to post there. If anyone is interested in this, it's available.
(Put in your own copyright notice, and your work will always be your
own.)
Rob, you can start this new function of our school off, and probably it
will work best if you work directly with Brent by email in getting him to
post your copy for you. Or else, he can show you how.
Oh, boy, how I'd love it if I could see a few others of you who have been
in this class follow suit on this. (Watch what a great fantasy this
following paragraph here is going to turn out to be! Heh-heh. And no
one is obligated in any way by these crazy fantasies that the ol' coach
comes up with—as usual, around here you can be free!)
Like I said, mindful poetry about experiences with vehicles stuck in the
Northwoods snow would be just great, Suz! Ah me, how a few scenes and
acts of a play by Douglas would make us all laugh and cry, and warm all
of our hearts! How about the start of that book I've been recommending
you try, Pauline, collecting enlightening jokes about the war between men
and women, so there could be this great healing resource available here
for any of us, right on the spot, whenever we *really need a good laugh*
in a hurry? When Eddie has his working life settled in again, it would
be so great if he'd start posting some chapters of his first book, that
he's been waiting to write since his boyhood. The others of you that
have been around here this term, too—you know who you are. You could do
it if you'd like to. Student John is sure *ready*! The possibilities of
your writings, John, are awesome. One day Deirdre may have her wise say
here in one of these ways. Maybe Rakesh could try out one of those
mindful interviews with some established guru he could look up there in
India, and see how that kind of 21st Century journalism turns out. All
of you that have hung around here for while have got it in you to do some
exceptional and outstanding creative writing of your own that draws upon
the Knowledge and understandings you have gained during your studies of
the ways homo sapiens works in the real world from a perspective of
moments of conscious awareness. You could all have desks in this new
department if you'd like to. I wish you would. Maybe Jeff would be
willing to post a link there at his desk over to his own website, which
is a mindfulness magazine on the Web in its own right! Perk, too, could
put a link at his desk in this department, if he'd like to, linking to
his own new site, as well—both those being contributions in the field of
"*editing writings on mindfulness practices*." You and Perk seem to show
up as the consummate natural editors in our group, Jeff. I could sure
hear some of the clear and dear prose of the softer side of Sally at one
of these desks. I have no doubt that dear Eon's day could come for
adding some creative designs of his own at his desk one day. And, Bruce,
oh yes, Bruce—no doubt in my mind that that man will be having a book in
the works before long. What an incredible bunch of talented writers and
editors you all are! How did it come out that the bunch of us got
together this way? Each of us can share our experiences of awakening in
our own ways in arts, crafts, and creativity that comes natural to us.
And now there is going to be a place for that soon around here. Thanks,
Rob, for inspiring that fantasy flight. We're "created a space for it."
Now, we'll see in the real world what actually happens in this space.
Anyway, nobody is obligated to do anything at all of all that around
here. I trust you all know how free you are in that way. I'm just
practicing coming up with games that look to me like they might be fun to
play. If it looks like fun to you, you are welcome to jump into the
field with it and play with it in your own way, and see whatever it is
that happens.
Well, ha-ha! I've obviously got a big charge of energy around this idea!
We'll see what, if anything, may come of it. But for starters, for sure
go ahead on it, Rob. Let's see what that's like, and if it can provide
any *real help* in what you and your collaborator are intending to
accomplish.
I'll call Brent today if I can get him, or tomorrow, and we'll talk about
putting in that "Class Writings" button as soon as he can.
Well, it's mid-afternoon on Sunday. I'd slept in. I don't get many
Sundays off over the years, and I think I'm going to devote the rest of
this one to flaking out in front of the television set, taking a nap, and
just plain wasting my time for awhile. :-)
Coach
Maybe I'll even get those dirty dishes in the sink done, too. Heh-heh.
(Oh-oh! Is that contrition, or is it guilt?)
Archived 09/22/2003